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Do you have any formal knowledge of what traditional forms of Buddhism teach? Because this assertion is divorced from what is actually contained in Buddhism. There is a duality, there is an evil one, and contrary to popular American conception, contains a panoply of divine beings and assertions concerning the moral nature of the universe. The following are not isolated instances, but are spread all over the Pali Canon.

The Pali Canon, SN 35:189 (tr. Thanissaro Bhikkhu)^2:

>There are forms, monks, cognizable via the eye—agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, enticing, linked to sensual desire. If a monk relishes them, welcomes them, & remains fastened to them, he is said to be a monk who has swallowed Māra’s hook, who has fallen into misfortune & disaster. The Evil One can do with him as he will.

>“There are sounds cognizable via the ear…

>“There are aromas cognizable via the nose…

>“There are flavors cognizable via the tongue…

>“There are tactile sensations cognizable via the body…

>“There are ideas cognizable via the intellect—agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, enticing, linked to sensual desire. If a monk relishes them, welcomes them, & remains fastened to them, he is said to be a monk who has swallowed Māra’s hook, who has fallen into misfortune & disaster. The Evil One can do with him as he will.

Similarly with gentle persuasion.

Pali Canon, MN 20 (tr. Thanissaro Bhikkhu)^2:

>If evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is attending to the relaxing of thought-fabrication with regard to those thoughts, then—with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth—he should beat down, constrain, and crush his mind with his awareness. As—with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth—he is beating down, constraining, and crushing his mind with his awareness, those evil, unskillful thoughts are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it. Just as a strong man, seizing a weaker man by the head or the throat or the shoulders, would beat him down, constrain, and crush him; in the same way, if evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is attending to the relaxing of thought-fabrication with regard to those thoughts, then—with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth—he should beat down, constrain, and crush his mind with his awareness. As—with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth—he is beating down, constraining, and crushing his mind with his awareness, those evil, unskillful thoughts are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it.

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1 - https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN35_189.html

2 - https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN20.html



I've always been taught that these are just metaphors and skillful means to relate with concepts that are difficult to grasp at first. My teachers are mainly Vajrayana though, so maybe it depends on lineage.

Also, that excerpt from MN20 is interesting because it reminded me that Thich Nhat Hanh used that as an example of needing multiple sources to get at the meaning of the teachings [1], as it's different in MN36 where the Buddha gives examples of things that ultimately didn't work for him [2]:

> "I thought: 'Suppose that I, clenching my teeth and pressing my tongue against the roof of my mouth, were to beat down, constrain, & crush my mind with my awareness.' So, clenching my teeth and pressing my tongue against the roof of my mouth, I beat down, constrained, & crushed my mind with my awareness. Just as a strong man, seizing a weaker man by the head or the throat or the shoulders, would beat him down, constrain, & crush him, in the same way I beat down, constrained, & crushed my mind with my awareness. As I did so, sweat poured from my armpits. And although tireless persistence was aroused in me, and unmuddled mindfulness established, my body was aroused & uncalm because of the painful exertion. But the painful feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain.

[1] excerpted here: https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/10712/clenching...

[2] https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.036.than.html


Is there actually a contradiction between MN20 and MN36? In MN20, the use of suppressing thoughts by force is for a specific purpose at a specific time:

>When a monk is intent on the heightened mind, there are five themes he should attend to at the appropriate times. Which five?

>[...] If evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is attending to the relaxing of thought-fabrication with regard to those thoughts, then—with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth [...].

The object in MN36 is distinctly different:

>So it is with any brahman or contemplative who lives withdrawn from sensuality in body only, but whose desire, infatuation, urge, thirst, & fever for sensuality is not relinquished & stilled within him: Whether or not he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings due to his striving, he is incapable of knowledge, vision, & unexcelled self-awakening.

>[...] "I thought: 'Suppose that I, clenching my teeth and pressing my tongue against the roof of my mouth, were to beat down, constrain, & crush my mind with my awareness.' So, clenching my teeth and pressing my tongue against the roof of my mouth, I beat down, constrained, & crushed my mind with my awareness. Just as a strong man, seizing a weaker man by the head or the throat or the shoulders, would beat him down, constrain, & crush him, in the same way I beat down, constrained, & crushed my mind with my awareness. As I did so, sweat poured from my armpits. And although tireless persistence was aroused in me, and unmuddled mindfulness established, my body was aroused & uncalm because of the painful exertion. But the painful feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain.

The key difference lies in the context and purpose: MN20 provides tools for dealing with unwholesome thoughts as part of the path to mindfulness and concentration, prioritizing individual strategies if the prior fails--first of distraction, then consequences, then ignoring them, then relaxing them, and if all of these fail, then brute force is necessary.

MN36 is the litany of strategies that don't lead to nibbana, showing that extreme asceticism and forceful mental suppression alone do not lead to enlightenment.

In traditional Theravada, Mara, divinities, and reincarnation are very much considered real and not metaphorical. In any case, the original point stands that big-tent Buddhism does contain these aspects.


Yeah, I'm not sure, that's a question for someone more advanced in their practice than me! But what I was understanding Thich Nhat Hanh to be saying was that we can't just rely on what was written down because they too can contain misunderstandings. As a Baul teacher I've been lucky enough to practice with says, don't read books, but study well. [1] A few of my friends ordained with Thanissaro Bhikkhu when we were younger, so maybe I'll give them a call and see what they think!

And yeah, for sure, there are plenty of divinities and whatnot in Buddhism -- a teacher of mine was just teaching on diety yoga with us last night -- but at least the way I practice with it these days is as a way to better relate to something that goes beyond physical form.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JZ4__GTbjA




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